Americans - please read and post your honest impression

[winwagers]

I know it is a double post and I know that only a few people visit the poltics forum but i want to know your honest impression about that.
I was a soldier a short time ago but we were teached to respect the geneva convention. I am not sure what your soldiers have been teached but I am ****ing pissed about the fact that the USA does not respect the war criminal court in the hague. some of your guys should be delivered straight to them and the same counts for the UK

Video

Abuse detailed

Taguba said several detainees had credibly described acts of abuse, including:

• Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees
• Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair
• Sodomising a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick
• Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them
• Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time
• Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped

 

[EverFresh]

I think that the people that authorized, perpetrated and stood by and watched while these atrocities took place should be tried as war criminals and punished appropriately.

Do not tar all Americans with the same brush, regardless of what you see or hear. Most of us did NOT vote for the current government in power

 

[JudgeWapner]

The only way for the US to maintain any credibility at all is for all the people responsible,to be tried.And not by the US military.

 

[winwagers]

Exactly what I am thinking, too. Every other soldier of any nation would face war criminal charges but i do not think the US soldiers will face that as the usa refuses to recognize the war criminal court for their own soldiers.
I can tell you one thing. I worked with us and british soldiers and officers for 5 years and guess what the british soldiers are thinking about the US forces? They hate them as hell because they have no discipline. And that is what we exactly see now.

 

[jimbutorac]

winwagers,

no doubt these american crossed the line but would hardly see them as indicative of all American Armed Forces personnel. In fact, part of the problem is that for the most part they are poorly trained Reservists that are over there because the military is overstretched (that's a whole 'nother issue).

Quite the contrary, overwhelming majority American military units are highly disciplined.

As an aside, I trained with British Marines some 15 years ago at Mountain Warfare school and at Officers Candidate School in Quantico, VA and never saw anything but mutual respect.

 

[WildBill]

I just don't get why Rumsfield sticks around. If I were in his spot I would just leave now before the real grilling comes. The longer he defiantly stays, the more of a liability he becomes to Bush. If he just takes the hatchet now and Bush says things will be done to punish the perpetrators then the collateral damage to him would be minimal. In his hard-headed ways of public and world opinion means nothing to me he just keeps finding ways to dig himself into that hole deeper and deeper...

 

[Mr NJ Sports]

I think those responsible for this nonsense should be tried as war criminals. This has NOTHING to do with the current administration and all of the other political nonsense that is being thrown around in here. It has to do with people who have no respect for others.

I do wonder though if these same people that are being harrassed and in some instances tortured are the same Iraqis that tortured and raped other Iraqis while doing Saddams dirty work. Because odds would have that they were and much of this sympathy is very very misplaced.

 

[Mr NJ Sports]

That little lesbian soldier is really really aggravating to look at.

 

[WildBill]

While I agree with you somewhat Mr. NJ, there still is a little thing called repsonsibility and chain of command that comes with the military. By having Rummy stick around, the world gets the impression we really don't care if this shit goes on. I know it isn't his fault personally but just like the leader of any big organization it all starts at the top. I mean if the baseball team is sucking, you can't fire the 25 players, but you can fire the coach or GM. If the army has issues you can't fire 50,000 soldiers, but you sure can force out the guy at the top.

 

[Phaedrus]

Of course these actions are abominable, but let's not forget that this is not the first such scandal in this war: the first was last summer, at the hands of British soldiers (see "Boys Will be Boys and Other Iraqi Foibles.") Let's hope this time around it isn't forgotten quite so quickly as last.


Phaedrus

 

[UncleMoneybags]

winwagers/everfresh,

A few hundred troops misbehaving (if that) and you're ready to condemn the entire U.S. armed forces? Classic.

That's a tidy, little arrangement you have there. You despise the American troops until such time that they have to defend your free speech then I'm sure you would be very supportive.

I must have been a bad soldier with a bad memory because I don't remember learning the Geneva Convention. Rest assured, what they did was not right but I understand that all the troops are under a great deal of stress so you should cut them a little slack as I have.

 

[D2bets]

All of this happening in an elective war that didn't have to be fought because the neocon chickenhawks that own this Administration don't understand the gravity of war (partly because they never fought in one) and view warfare as simply another means to achieve their desired ends in the world. And Bush is the dummy led around in a chains and a doggy collar because he's too ignorant to comprehend what is happening around him. And a Republican Congress who was so thrilled to be able to spend whatever they wanted and not have a President getting head in the Oval Office that they give the President a blank check to do whatever he desires. In the meantime, I fear that the real terrorists are simply laughing at us, recruiting by the thousands and circling days on their calendar for when they will unleash their terror on a duped nation.

I sure hope that John Kerry is up to the task because, out of default, we need him badly.

 

[Mr.Jones]

Lt. William Calley's Court Martial in 1970 for murdering women and children in My Lai resulted in his serving only a few days time. He was then placed under house arrest and in 1974 was pardoned by President Richard Nixon [R].

 

[jeffry22]

what is not mentioned is that those prisoners are very likely guilty of murder and attacks on innocent americans and iraqis. I can assure you that as an American me and most of the people I have discussed this with are not even a little "disturbed " by these photos. I dont see what the fuss is all about - how did you people think we were gathering information from captives? did anyone think it was a pleasant process?

 

[FunkSoulBrother]

They beat people to death, how can you call that "misbehaving"?

 

[winwagers]

@uncle that is exactly what i expected.
Even every conscript in our forces is being teached the Geneve Convention. Whenever we have an out of area mission we get a small printout including the Geneva Convention as well as some other stuff. Maybe that is the difference why most of the "other" forces are much more disciplined compared to the US forces. I do not bash all of your troops but I learned to know many soldiers during my international duties as well as during my spare time. Maybe your troops stationed in the USA are different but the troops you send to Europe or other parts of the world are mostly trash. Believe me the way they represent the USA is horrible. It is like I am American and we are the greatest so we can do whatever we want. Different for most OFs but the lower ORs (let us say up to OR 5) are horrible. You even can not have a discussion with them (no wonder by having in mind that they only read the Stars and Stripes). What came out now is nothing else than what had to be exoected from such troops. French, Germans, Spanish and Italians are also on mil duties in Afghnistan, Kosovo and other parts of the world. Have you ever heard about some misbehaving of them? No way because all of these nations are highly respected. I remember when I was on duty in Croatia and Bosnia they welcomed the German troops and said thanks god you are here now. Guess what they thought about the Britts and Americans? **** off - we hate you. This was my experience. What do you think why the Iraqis apologized when they killed two of our special police troops weeks ago? Because they do not hate us. They thought they were Americans (despite the fact that is no excuse).
Your president and all of his buddies did not make plans about what comes after the war is over and right now your troops pay the price for it.
The people mentioned for beating etc. Iraqis are war criminals and should be taken to The Hague. Nothing less.
Even a single soldier represents the forces !!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I think Kerry could do much better than Bush and I surely hope that you elect him. He could get back some kind of peace to your nation.

 

[UncleMoneybags]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> They beat people to death, how can you call that "misbehaving"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I say that because I have only seen one side of the story and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they get court-martialed and thrown in the brig, it wouldn't matter what I thought because their lives would be ruined and they would have no one to blame but themselves.

winwagers,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Even every conscript in our forces is being teached the Geneve Convention. Whenever we have an out of area mission we get a small printout including the Geneva Convention as well as some other stuff. Maybe that is the difference why most of the "other" forces are much more disciplined compared to the US forces. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The U.S. hasn't practiced conscription in about 30 years. I believe most of these people were reservists who probably joined for the GI bill. That's not to say every one did but everyone that I have met did. I've made my position clear. I don't know what country you're from but for argument's sake I'll say Bulgaria. It's easy not to be accused of much when you only have a token amount of troops in the area. When you have 100,000+ then and only then should you and yours be congratulated for your good conduct.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What do you think why the Iraqis apologized when they killed two of our special police troops weeks ago? Because they do not hate us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it was some of al-Sadr's militiamen they do hate you. I'm sorry but you're an infidel whether you're Christian or Muslim because you are in league with the great Satan. They would take great pleasure in killing you and your family. Make no mistake about it.

 

[KMAN]

It is very sad that this happened and they should be punished for it but why was there not all of this outrage when we had Iraqi's executing US POWs? I'll tell you why because in every other country, there is a double standard. Nobody cares what happens to US soldiers but when a couple of dumbass US soldiers do something wrong the world goes ape shit.

God Bless America....Thank God my life doesn't revolve around hoping another countries fail.

 

[jeffry22]

Tens of millions of Americans hate arabs and muslims because of what they have done to us and the way they represent themselves. I want to know when these people will begin to change their behavior so that americans will like them more.

 

[American]

The "Thumbs Up" chick is hot! I'd like her to introduce me to the erotic world of bondage and discipline.